Amy left a comment on this week’s Sunflower Market post about a good deal on milk:
I was at Sunflower Market a couple months ago and they were handing out samples of their milk (Farmer’s All Natural)… which was delish. But, the lady handing out the samples said it was organic (no hormones, antibiotics, etc.). There is no labeling on the bottles b/c they’re reusable. You pay $1.50 deposit per bottle but are refunded that amount when you bring back the empty bottle. The last time I was there it was $3.29 a gallon, which is the cheapest I’ve seen organic milk. I’ve rarely seen it less than $5/gallon even at Costco or Sam’s.
So, I had to ask if the milk was really, truly, certified organic or just all-natural. That seemed like a huge price difference, even for Sunflower Market, and it seems kind of odd that it wouldn’t be labeled as organic since it’s an expensive process to become certified organic. (If it’s this Farmer’s All-Natural, it does appear that it’s organic. Anyone know for sure?)
Amy said she contacted the company to find out about that specific milk, but it sounds like we could have a lively discussion about organic versus all-natural.
Here’s my take in a nutshell: to be called organic, the grower/manufacturer/whatever has to go through a pretty extensive and expensive process to be certified organic. To the best of my knowledge, you cannot call something organic unless it is really, truly 100% certified organic. (These days, manufacturer’s are starting to say “contains organic ingredients” or “75% organic”, but I believe there are big-time fines for calling something organic that’s not 100% certified organic.)
Now, there are no regulations over the term all-natural. All-natural means… well, what does it mean? The answer to that is whatever the manufacturer wants it to mean. Heavens, high fructose corn syrup is being touted as all-natural, you know?
I personally don’t differentiate between all-natural and “regular” products because unless I can look at the box and see what’s in it, the term all-natural means nothing. I know there’s a standard for organic (and there’s even a debate on that), so if my budget allows I may pay more for something that’s organic, but I could care less about something having a label that says all-natural.
What do you think? Have you researched the debate between organic and all-natural? Do you pay more for a product because the box says all-natural, or do you see it as a marketing gimmick? What about products like milk that don’t really have an examinable list of ingredients – do you think all-natural and organic are the same on those types of products?
Jump in and join the discussion in the comments. Feel free to leave links to other articles or studies about the issue. Oh, and just a reminder to be kind in your comments – amazingly enough, these types of debates can get pretty nasty!
For me it would depend on what the “all-natural” label was on :-) I do try and buy organic when I can in meats and dairy especially, vegetables depend on which ones (Like NOT bananas, avocados that you would remove the peel anyway, but often spinach, lettuce or carrots)
I would be interested in the answers from the milk supplier above though!
And did you know that Sunflower Market has 5# bags of ORGANIC carrots priced at $4.99 usually – $1 a pound for organic is usually good buy in book.
I have heard that milk can be called organic/hormone free if they don’t give the cows shots, but they can STILL put the hormomes in their feed! Just something I heard. Bummer if true!
still haven’t heard back from Sunflower about that milk… which does not bode well for the *organic* claim. argh!
Here’s a good link that describes the difference between ‘organic’ and ‘all-natural’: http://www.organicfacts.net/organic-food/organic-food-basics/difference-between-organic-and-natural-food.html. I’d say with either one, I’d still err on the side of caution and do research on the company providing the products. Although the FDA and the USDA have requirements/standards for a product being called ‘organic’, neither of those agencies is known for doing a stellar job of making sure companies follow the rules.
For the most part, I think most of the companies whose goal it is to provide organic products do it because they truly believe in the benefits of them, not because they’re trying to make a buck. Some of the bigger companies who’ve been making junk food and processed stuff for years and years are jumping on the bandwagon, but I don’t believe they’re as good. There are also some companies who really do their best to provide ‘organic’ products (like Annie’s), but they haven’t been certified.
I recommend, if you’re curious about how it all works, you join a CSA. There are several in Colorado. There are organic farms like Grant Family Farms (the first certified organic farm in the state) and closer to home, there is Venetucci Farm. Although Venetucci has not been certified organic by the government, they are willing to share with you everything they do to grow all-natural produce. Most CSAs provide a plethora of veggies and fruits, as well as shares of milk, eggs, meats, etc.
In addition to supporting local businesses, you lower your carbon footprint (who doesn’t love that!). Just kidding. But seriously, there are a lot of great local businesses/farms who are doing their part and are happy to share their knowledge about it all. I love supporting them.
I don’t work for a farm or company that provides organics/all-natural products. I just really believe it’s up to us to know what we’re putting into our bodies instead of relying on others to tell us what’s safe.
There is a difference between the two. We buy all organic fruits and veggies, as well as milk. Hope this helps.
Here’s a link that will help you differentiate between the two.
http://www.organicfacts.net/organic-food/organic-food-basics/difference-between-organic-and-natural-food.html
I’m interested in anyone’s thoughts on this… “A 2008 study in Journal of the American Dietetic Association analyzed the composition of organic milk, milk labeled “rbST-free” and regular milk, and found that the label claims were not related to any meaningful differences in milk composition.”
Vicini J. et al. Survey of retail milk composition as affected by label claims regarding farm-management practices. Journal of the American Dietetic Association. 2008;108:1198-1203.
I’m so confused… who’s getting snowed here? Those of us who buy organic or those of us who buy the cheap stuff!?!?!
I don’t think anyone is getting snowed, if they know why they’re buying what they’re buying. For me, I try to buy only organic meats and dairy because of the stuff that gets pumped into animals to make them grow faster, grow fatter, taste better, produce more milk, etc (not to mention the new craze of genetic modification). I don’t think just drinking milk is going to hurt anything, but drinking milk and eating cheese and meat, etc., adds up over time. With the explosion of health issues we’re facing I’d rather not take my chances.
As with anything else, moderation is key. With all the stuff thrown into food nowadays it’s hard to moderate what you’re eating if you don’t even know what it is. Look at Jeremy Pivens: http://www.kptm.com/Global/story.asp?S=11449167&nav=menu606_1 I’ve wondered about soy estrogen for years, but have never heard anything bad about it until he blamed it for creating his man boobs! I already have enough hormonal problems; I don’t need my food throwing me out of whack even more! :)
Anyway, I think the study to which you are referring is saying that the nutritive properties of the different kinds of milk are the same (that is the calcium, vitamins, minerals…all the good stuff). There are plenty of studies that have proven rbST does transfer to milk; and there are varying opinions on whether or not that has any ill affects on humans. There hasn’t been enough evidence to prove it does or does not. rbST does, however, increase the level of growth factors which have been linked to women with breast cancer. You can read about it here: http://envirocancer.cornell.edu/Factsheet/Diet/fs37.hormones.cfm. There really are several sources of information about it, so feel free to find one you trust.
While most of my research pertains to things like makeup and cosmetics due to the nature of my business, the laws are still the same, so I will share what I have went through (and even wrote an article for my company’s Facebook page).
First, the easiest to tackle, which is “all-natural”. There are ZERO regulations on the books for ANY product sold for this. For example, on my mineral makeup, I state that there are no industrial chemicals. The reasoning for this seems to be that pretty much everything in this world is made from something else. You can’t get say… gas without using natural ingredients. You can’t get 409 without breaking it down to natural ingredients at the end of the line. In fact, I could even label some treatment all-natural and/or homeopathic (homeopathic is used to skirt having to run any trials for anything that claims to do anything for you, like lower blood pressure, heal acne, etc.), but I could put straight bleach in it, tell you to drink 1tsp a day to cure cancer. And there is nothing you could do to stop me. This all started on my crusade to investigate soy wax and how people said it was all natural, when that’s not even possible, when soy wax contains petroleum by products to make it usable as a wax. I digress.
To excerpt two paragraphs of my writing: The recent Zicam debacle shows just how dangerous “natural” can be. While it’s the most publicized, it’s not the only product. Some supplements have caused suicidal tendencies, like taking St. John’s Wort while depressed. Yet still, other herbs used in AN products can cause severe burns to the skin, if gotten into the eyes – blindness, and severe breathing problems including lung failure.
One prime example of lung issues is using homeopathic and AN remedies around children. Eucalyptus is extremely dangerous for young children, and in very small amounts safe for adults, certain products contain beyond the safe limit for adults as well. The label does NOT have to even be truthful on how much of each ingredient a product contains. So while safe limits on an ingredient may be 1 part per million, and the label says it is, it can actually make up the entire pill, lotion, etc. and there’s no one to stop it, and you cannot challenge it legally.
This is even more coming to light with the Williams boys as players for the Vikings, taking a supplement that did NOT list an ingredient which was banned by the NFL. They are playing while they wait for a court to decide – they took it at their own risk is the NFL’s stance, and the boys are saying since it wasn’t disclosed it wouldn’t be reasonable to expect it to be in there.
With the organic movement, there is *some* certification required, but laws vary and even state laws are much more rigid in some cases. BUT there are no laws to stop some states from importing from a lax law state to keep the organic label. For example, if Colorado – all it takes is no shots to be certified organic at a price of $3 per unit of something, but Wyoming requires lots of hoops, at a cost of $5 per unit, many stores in Wyoming will import from Colorado, save the cost and still have the certification. There is nothing on the books to stop any states from saying an imported product is organic.
There were about 15 studies from 2008 to mid 2009 that also touted there are no benefits in eating organic. Veggies, milks, fruits, etc. that were tested showed no different chemical makeup, no additional or lack of benefit, no increase or decrease in the amount of chemicals on the outside or inside… as in nothing. There was no difference in shelf life, no difference in freeze life and in taste tests – not a discernible difference there either.
While Cati provides the link – I caution those who do their own research to look at where the information is coming from. organicfacts.net will have their own agenda, and if you look at it unbiased, you’ll see they actually cannot give straight facts on anything, because frankly, there are no facts supporting organic is better, either for you or the products you buy. I came across this very rapidly when trying to find counterparts to help the soy wax, the first and foremost resource everyone used in proving their theory… the Iowa Soybean Farmers Association.
You can additionally slap organic on the label somewhere, if you are at least 70% organic. Organic doesn’t always equate to 100% either.
In the very least, what we do know with organic, is that at least some part of the process is natural – but justifying paying the cost, may be completely out of line as well. Especially since you don’t have details on *which* part was organic.
awesome link, Cati! thanks. My mother had a double mastectomy last year due to breast cancer, which has prompted me to look into all the crazy ways we are getting hormones in our systems. Just hard to know which resources to *trust*.
Although, now you and Jeremy Piven have got me thinking of trying soy milk for *other reasons* ;)
I wanted to include this article from WebMD, while it states some of what I’ve said – there’s an important factor too, that no one has delved into.
http://www.webmd.com/food-recipes/features/organic-food-better
One imparticular: Man-made pesticides aren’t the only threats to food safety. There is also the question of natural toxins produced by the plants themselves. In this arena, conventional foods may actually have the advantage.
Because organic production steers clear of synthetic insecticides and herbicides, organic crops usually contend with more pests and weeds than conventional crops. This means the organic plants may produce more natural toxins.
“Plants can’t get up and walk away. If they’re being attacked, they’ve got to sit there and take it. So they may resort to their own chemical warfare,” explains Carl Winter, director of the FoodSafe program and an extension food toxicologist at the University of California, Davis.
These natural pesticides could be just as harmful to people — or even more so — than the synthetic pesticides used in conventional agriculture. One familiar example is solanine, a substance produced by potatoes as they turn green, which can make you ill if you ingest too much of it.
Another safety concern that has been raised about organic food is the issue of manure fertilizers. Some critics fear that using manure to fertilize organic crops might increase the risk of contamination by dangerous microbes like E. coli.
The last page gives a good list for those who have certain areas of concern specifically.
Here is another good resource that tackles a few other issues like production footprints from medicinenet:
http://www.medicinenet.com/script/main/art.asp?articlekey=52420
One part to point out here: The national standards restrict the AMOUNTS of usage for organic certification. Doesn’t always mean it’s totally free, just under the amounts they deemed safe.
Question: So from my understanding “organic” fruits and veggies are fertilized with manure instead of chemical fertilizers (if they’re fertilized at all.) But if the animals whose manure their using were injected with hormones or fed food with hormones, etc what’s to stop the chemical from leeching out in the manure? Wouldn’t that then go to the veggies too?
That’s true as well Roxanne. There is no regulation on the types of manure on whether it be tested before it’s applied to crops. This is evident in the e.coli possibilities so logically, you are correct in that the manure itself may be contaminated with the hormones of animals. One of the biggest things I’ve come across is that even when there are regulations, farms are tested as little as once every 5 years or more because of the lack of ability to check on them.
This was evident in the peanut butter scare – that facility was found in violation several times in a row over 10 years and no one ever went back to check on them or sanction them.
This is a little rabbit-trail off the actual topic, but many MANY milks that are not organic or labeled “all-natural” ARE hormone-free. King Soopers and Sam’s (and I think Wal-Mart) ONLY sell milk that is hormone free! These milks are not guaranteed to be free of antibiotics, but they are likely to contain much less, because cows that are not being treated with hormones are much less likely to need antibiotics. Just thought I’d share, since this was new to me a few months ago!
Since I’m mostly concerned with hormones, this is good news to me, Noelle. I’ve seen the labels that say “no added hormones”, but the word *added* has confused me… does that mean absolutely NO hormones?
Hi,
I was trying to figure if the Farmers All Natural milk ws rBGH free as well. I discovered that Royal Crest Dairy is where the milk comes from. Here is response I received from their customer service dept. “The Farmer’s All-Natural milk sold at Sunflower markets is our milk. All of our milk is produced from cows that are not treated with rBST/rBGH, and are antibiotic and pesticide free.”
Lyle Eric Johnson
Good to know, because the milk is delicious!
Katie
Most milk sold in stores is rBGH free these days due to consumer demand – pretty sure even Walmart’s milk is! Interestingly, I’ve heard that a lot of milk products like yogurt and ice cream are usually not made with non-rBGH milk.
There is yet another dimension that has not been addressed here GMO or GE foods. If the label says “USDA Certified Organic” it may not contain any Genetically Modified or Genetically Engineered elements or sources. That is NOT true for food products labeled “all natural” since neither the USDA nor the FDA will step up and offer any legal food related definition for that marketing term.
So, “all natural” milk can legally come from cows that have been fed any sort of feeds, even ones that contain GMOs (90%+ of the corn and 95% of soybeans in commercial production in the US are GMO contaminated!). Only if milk is labeled USDA Certified Organic can you be sure is is GMO free.